18. How do we know if we are ending homelessness?

In this week’s episode, Carl Falconer and Danny Arroyo tackle one of the biggest (and most misunderstood) questions in the field: what does real progress look like—and how do we measure it beyond headlines and politics?

We break down the “rare, brief, and non-recurring” framework, talk about why reliable data matters (including HMIS participation), and explain concepts like “functional zero.” We also debate whether the U.S. is truly reducing homelessness, discuss why housing costs are the common thread, and answer listener questions about what one statistic matters most.

Plus: a headline from California’s 2025 Point In Time count results, an inspired quote from Project HOME, and a powerful MVP story about Rick Steves stepping in to save a hygiene center serving hundreds of unsheltered neighbors. Our fumble of the week highlights how homelessness impacts children and classrooms globally.

Email questions: ⁠questions@pathlighthome.org⁠

Support, volunteer, or tour: PathlightHOME.org

Produced by Gigi Ramirez and Jay Falconer.

Music and Sound Design by Kwon.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Home Team Podcast. I'm Carl Falconer and I'm Danny Arroyo, and we're tackling homelessness.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Today in our podcast, we will discuss two of our passions, football and ending homelessness. Please join us through four quarters with our question this week being: How do we know if we are ending homelessness? So we're back.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

We're back. How was your vacation? Good. How was your vacation?

SPEAKER_04 0:39

It was good. It was relaxing. Uh went on my cruise, like I said before. Pretty fast. Weather was good, um, but got to relax. Um, but it was quick. It was a quick three-day thing. And then hung out with my brother in um Largo, Florida, because he's here till New Year's. Okay. And then just hung out at home and rested.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Nothing like resting. Pretty much. That's for sure. How about you? How about the games? Exact opposite. He did the opposite, yeah. Uh traveled, like I said, went to two games, uh, the Redskins game, so got to see Washington Stadium. Um, very old stadium, but there's a lot of history there, so it was still pretty cool. Um, and then uh went to Cleveland Stadium, um, and also the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which is right beside the stadium. So got to do both of those things. So uh yeah, it was really, really and then after that, then uh flew to uh North Georgia where spent time with the family in a cabin in the woods, basically, uh near Callaway Gardens, uh outside of Atlanta. So we yeah, it was uh got to relax a little bit there. Um we still did some things, you know, as a family and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

So the weather today should you should feel good, right? Yes, I was up there.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

It was a little cooler up there, but actually it wasn't too bad. Uh Washington, Cleveland, it was definitely cold. There was no doubt about that. But um, but coming back, it started to warm up a little bit. So it's getting cooler here now, though.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

So it's yeah, I think cold is not even the word to describe it right now. It's cold.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

All right. Okay, so we'll start off like we always do uh with our coin flip. Uh Danny, go ahead and call it in the air. Sure. So it's tails. And it is tails, so you get to start us off.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

All right, so welcome to our first quarter. I'm going to kick off by giving some perspective on our topic of the week, and then we will cover some news headlines and announce the results from last week's home team locks of the week. So, our topic, like we said earlier, was how do we know if we are ending homelessness? So, ending homelessness is not defined by a single statistic, but by whether a community's housing system makes homelessness rare, brief, and non-recurring. An area is moving toward ending homelessness when fewer people are becoming homeless, and those who do are housed quickly and permanently. That's the key word, permanent. Permanent. First, homelessness must be rare, meaning the number of people entering homelessness steadily declines. Tracking new entries shows whether prevention efforts such as eviction assistance and income support are working. Second, homelessness must be brief. Effective systems rehouse people quickly, minimizing time spent in shelters or on the streets. Third, homelessness must be non-recurring. Low return rates indicate that housing placements are stable and supported. A key measure of progress is whether more people are exiting homelessness than entering it, leading to sustained reductions over time. Some communities call that functional zero. We've mentioned that a couple of times. Absolutely. Meaning that they can house anyone who becomes homeless within a short period. When combined with equitable outcomes and reliable data, these indicators show whether a community is truly ending homelessness rather than simply managing it. So some ways to measure it is rate of new entries into homelessness, how many people lose uh housing each month, overall homelessness rate per 10,000 residents, community can house people faster than homelessness occurs, and more people are exiting homelessness than entering it.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Yeah. Um, and so this uh this week's episode is a little more complex. Um obviously we've been doing this podcast now for quite a few weeks. Yes. Um and so uh we wanted to try and give the the listeners something a little more complex, uh diving into a little little more of the complexities of the system, really. And uh so because you hear a lot in the news, right? Uh are we ending homelessness, are we not? Unfortunately, it's become kind of a political issue where people are arguing one way or the other, whether they're doing good, whether they're doing bad. In fact, you know, our headline that we're getting ready to talk about is some of that as well. Um but uh but the reality is is there are specific ways to be able to measure whether you're ending homelessness or not. And um I I do like what it says here about rare, brief, and non-recurring. The problem that we run into, though, is that there are many different ways that people try to measure these things. And some of them are more accurate than others, and some are less accurate. Um, and so I think, yes, I think definitely these are some good indicators. Your rate of new entries into homelessness. Now, how do you measure that? Uh obviously we have a homeless management information system, and the data that we collect goes into that homeless management information system or HMIS, it goes into that system, and so we're trying to put as many people that become homeless into that system. Right. But there are still providers, as you know, Danny, in our in our in our age or in our system that don't use it. And so that's where we lose some of that credibility. So the first thing I think that people have to look at is how many of your providers are using HMIS. If you have less than 50% of your providers using HMIS, then the numbers coming out of that are not as accurate as they could be. Um and it's not even like you can use a um like a multiplier or you know, some kind of factor because you could have huge providers that don't use it, or you could have very, very small providers that don't use it. So even that, you know, so if 50% of your providers use HMIS and 50% don't, you can't just double the number. Right. Because you don't know from those providers if they're serving more than half of the population or they're serving 10% of the population.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

Estimating, you know, who's out there is really difficult. Yeah. And there are a lot of people that are out there that are not in the system at all. Whether whether an organization is using HMIS or not, there are some people who just have never been touched by the system at all, which makes it really hard to capture that data and understand who's out there.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Um, we're getting better at it. I think we're collecting more data now. There's more outreach efforts being done. And um, but I agree there is so much political negativity, I guess if you want to call it that right now, that it's just it makes it making us talk more about it, right? And figure how to do things internally, how to partner with other people. But definitely, you know, the end result is ending homelessness, of course, and getting everyone off the street. But yeah, you know, whether you whether an organization wants to do it a certain way and we want to do it a certain way, it's fine, but the end result should be ending it. It should be getting people housed. That's exactly right. And I think that's where a lot of organizations struggle. So we talked a lot about people wanting to do um services and not solutions, right? You're really just putting a band-aid on it. You know, if you if you're doing services and solutions, perfect. You're doing it right. But it's yeah, it's it's a lot of moving parts to this, it's not that easy. It is not easy.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit about it. We'll get in more in-depth into it as we go through this podcast. But the reality is, is like you said, how do we know if we're ending homelessness? Well, there's a couple of different levels there, and you just mentioned uh kind of that is there's the agency level, and we've talked about that. You've got to know how many people they're putting into housing or keeping from being housed. Now, don't get me wrong, prevention programs are good too. Yep. So it's really, again, when it comes down to the individual agency, it's really about two different things. Either you're preventing people from getting into home into homelessness or you're keeping people housed. Anything else that you that you do as an agency is fluff. I mean, it's it's kind of it, and I'm not saying it's not important, don't get me wrong. That that's not what I'm trying to say here. What I'm trying to say is those things, some of those other things can lead to those. Right. But the ultimate end, just like you mentioned, has to be either keeping people from becoming homeless or getting them into housing on an individual level. Now, on a system level, yes, we need to do, we need to look at the you know, overall homelessness rate per 10,000 residents. That's the other thing that that a lot of people don't understand is that they look at the numbers, and even if the homeless numbers are going up, the number of people who are homeless is going up, right? If your population is going up at the same or greater rate, you may in fact be reducing homelessness because basically the percentage-wise, it's going down.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

And so it it can't just be about very specific numbers. And again, what we're what we're trying to get across in this episode really is that it's more complex than just politicians throwing out numbers saying it's going up, it's going down, use this number, use that number. Right. Because numbers can be manipulated. And so we want to look beyond that and we really kind of want to dive into it.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

And we don't know those numbers are accurate anyway.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

No, absolutely. That's exactly right. All right. Well, now let's take a look at some of the headlines from the homeless world. Um, this one comes from Governor Gavin Newsom's office. They reported that many California communities are seeing declines in homelessness, especially unsheltered homelessness, based on preliminary local data from the 2025 point-in-time counts. Now, I want to point out that the 2025 point-in-time counts happened at the end of January 2025. Yep. Sometimes it takes a long time for these numbers to really get accumulated, to go through all the details of it, things like that. And that's why I think some of this is coming out now. I also think that some of it is political, and it's some of the reasons why it's coming out now. Um, but then the Newsom administration credits these trends to a comprehensive state strategy, including expanding mental health treatment and housing, voter-approved funding through Proposition One, which provides more money for housing and services, new conservatorship and care court pathways, and these are different types of courts that are available to people who have either gone through misdemeanors or things like that. Housing construction reforms, increased shelter funding, and coordinated efforts to clear encampments while connecting people to services. The article contrasts California's approach with national trends, noting that while homelessness rose sharply nationwide in 2024, California limited the overall growth and nearly stabilized unsheltered homelessness. So this is an example of again a politician coming out and talking about using point-in-time data as a trend, basically a trend for whether their homelessness is going up or going down. One of the things I want to point out about this, and I read this entire article, and I've just kind of broken it down a little here, is they pick very select communities in California, of course, and it's not all of California. And that's the that's one of the rubs that you have with this. When you pick and choose the data out of what you're trying to do, it obviously skews what you're what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

Again, it's not accurate. You're picking and choosing what looks good on paper, and you know, because again, we know California has a huge problem on homelessness. Absolutely. So it'd be good to see the entire picture of what that whole point in time was. That's right. Because again, if some communities probably went up, some you know uh counties went down, that's fine. Yes, but you need to show the whole picture, not just that's right pieces of the puzzle, because that doesn't make sense. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

And and again, with these different propositions, and again, I I think this is good that they're trying to do different things. The the problem we've talked about this before in California, more more often than not, is the coordination, though. And the fact that some counties are going up and some counties are going down shows the lack of coordination across the entire state.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

And services that are in those smaller counties, those rural counties that we talked about. So but it's a good way for them to see, okay, wait, this is not working in this county. What can we do? What dollars can we add that to add more services to get people off the street?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Yeah, I I mean uh to me, what this really points to is that there are some counties that have some good pilot programs, maybe that are doing some really good work or they're using their dollars in a very specific way that's helping reduce homelessness. Right. And other counties might look at those counties and be able to replicate that. How can I mirror it? Yeah, how can I do the same? Yeah, definitely. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

All right, so it's football time. Let's see how our cowboys and bears did this week. So we're we're gonna talk two weeks worth of football.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

There you go, two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Uh, so I will start first on on this is like the pro and con. This is the con right now. Offensive mine is the defense right now. So uh uh uh uh December 20th, uh, which was right before Christmas, uh, we played the Chargers. Fortunately, we lost 34 to 17, so our 1% chance of going to the playbook kind of disappeared. So that whole uh division, they're all out except for the Eagles. Kudos to them.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

Uh and then Christmas Day, which that was I was hoping that we at least it would game didn't matter, but uh we won uh 30 against 23 against the commanders, so we ended our well, the season's not over yet. Uh, but we are at 7, 8, and 1. And this week we have um the Giants, which should be kind of an easy game as well for us, I think.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

So I think you're actually 8-8. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

7-8, 7-8-1. Yeah, that's right. 7-8-1. Yeah, okay. If you want to give me another win, go ahead. I'll take it. No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

No. Can't do it.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Can't do anything for a win.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Exactly. So, yes, we'll play the Giants next week, so maybe 8-8-1. There we go, exactly. All right, so your Bears. All right, my Bears. Um, so we played the Packers on uh December 20th, and we won that game 22 to 16, as I predicted we would. Very good. Told you we were not going to lose to the Packers. No, not at all. It came right down to the end. Another game, another one. I don't know why we keep doing this. I think you know, in this case, our offense just could not get going, and our defense had to kind of keep us in it. And then, of course, we played the 49ers on Monday night, uh 1228, and we lost to the 49ers um on that on that uh night. So we are now eleven and five. Five, yeah. At this point, yep.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

Um but you but you won your division.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

That's right. We won our division. So we are, yes, absolutely. So we've won the NFC North. Uh we're in the playoffs, and now we just have to figure out about seeding uh where we're gonna be seeded. Next week we play the Lions. I don't know. Uh we play on Sunday, so some things might already be decided before we even play. I think we play in the late game, I think.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

So what seed are you in?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Right now we're in the second seed.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Not bad.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Um, no, but we have a chance to get to the number one seed.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

But I think it's gonna depend on you know a lot of other different factors that go along with it.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Is losing to the lines gonna affect the case?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

I don't know. And uh that's what I think. That's why I think the coach is probably gonna make his decision about who to play and how long to play them once he sees kind of where the seeding is gonna be or if we're already locked in.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Yeah, you want to keep them healthy for the playoffs.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. No doubt.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

Well, good for you and your team.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Hey, that's right. We're going. Who did you pick for your Super Bowl picks again?

SPEAKER_04 16:45

I had Philadelphia and the Ravens.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

The Ravens. Okay, so they're both still alive, technically. Yep. The Ravens still haven't secured a playoff position yet. Philadelphia's good. But they're Philadelphia's good. They've locked in. Who did you pick? I picked the Rams and the Bills for the Super Bowl. So I've with the both of my teams have blocked in for playoffs. That would be a great game. There we go. It would be a great game, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

I like Josh Allen.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yes, exactly. Very good. Well, that wraps up the first quarter, and we will be back after this break.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Hello, I'm Danny Arroyo, Vice President of Programs at Pathlight Home. If you're new to our mission, welcome. We're dedicated to changing the lives of those experiencing homelessness and hardship through housing, support services, and career training. What began as one dream for a compassionate solution to homelessness has become a reality. Since our funding, we've provided housing for more than 8,000 people, offering shelter, opportunity, and hope. This month, as we honor National Homeless Awareness Month, we are also kicking off our end-of-year campaign, a time to come together and give back. Every contribution, whether monetary or in kind, directly supports our residents and the community we serve. No gift is too small to make a difference. As we celebrate our journey from dream to reality, thank you for being part of this mission. Together we can make the dream of ending homelessness a reality in our community. This is the second quarter. We are getting a little deeper into homelessness topic with something we call offense versus defense. We will each take turns discussing some opposing viewpoints of our topic this week. The question we asked this week is Are we reducing homelessness in the U.S.? Please remember that we are trying to show both of uh both sides of the issue. These do not necessarily reflect our individual stances on these positions. So this week I will have the offense call and you will have the defense. So again, the question is, are we reducing homelessness in the U.S.? So first, some communities are showing real declines. Several cities and regions report reductions in overall or unsheltered homelessness, suggesting that targeted strategies such as housing first, rapid rehousing, and outreach can work when fully funded and coordinated. Next, veteran homelessness has significantly decreased. Uh nationally, veteran homelessness has dropped compared to its peak, showing that focused investments, clear accountability, and federal local coordination can produce measurable results. And I think we had a story recently on veterans reducing homelessness. There is a strong evidence that permanent supportive housing, rental assistance, and eviction prevention reduce homelessness. The problem is no longer about knowing what works, but about scaling it. Better data and accountability exist than before. Tools like point in time counts, by name list, and system performance measures allow communities to track progress and adjust strategies more effectively than in the past decades. Next, housing and homelessness are now national priorities. Homelessness is widely recognized as a policy issue to housing supply, mental health, and income. Increased public attention and funding, signal momentum toward long-term solutions. So you have defense, Carl.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

I have the defense. So are we reducing homelessness in the U.S.? Uh I have the defense or the no position. Uh homelessness remains high and widespread. National homelessness levels are near record highs, and many large cities continue to see visible encampments and overcrowded shelters contradicting claims of broad success. Next, progress is uneven and fragile. Gains in some places are offset by increases in others. We just talked about that. California might be an example. Even when numbers fall, reductions are often small, temporary, or vulnerable to economic downturns and rising rents. Number three, the housing costs continue to rise faster than incomes. I think this is a very important one. The lack of affordable housing is worsening in many regions, pushing more people into homelessness than systems can rehouse, especially during inflation and housing shortages. Next, prevention systems are underfunded. Many people fall into homelessness due to evictions, medical debt, or job loss. Without stronger prevention, homelessness continues to refill faster than it can be resolved. Next, disparities persist. Black, indigenous, disabled, and LGBTQ plus people remain disproportionately affected. Ending homelessness requires addressing these inequities, not just lowering overall numbers. And finally, support systems are strained are strained. Mental health care, substance abuse treatment, and supportive housing capacity remain insufficient in many areas, limiting the sustainability of housing placements. So let me talk about yours first, Danny. Um I think I think these are some valid points. Um, veteran homelessness is a really good example of how if we have the will to do so and can scale the efforts with our resources, you can in fact reduce homelessness. There's no doubt about that. Um, I think that's a perfect example of that. Um, housing and homelessness are now national priorities. I don't necessarily agree with that one. I think they are political talking points now. I don't know if they're necessarily priorities.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

I think people talk about wanting to solve homelessness and wanting to do something about it. But the reality is, is there are simpler solutions that we could be, you know, providing if there really was political will to be able to do this. But it's it's uh I'll use the term a political football. They're tossing it around, trying to make themselves look good and their opponents look bad, no matter who it is, whether it's people who are who think that we are ending homelessness or people who don't think that we're producing homelessness. So, you know, going back and forth with the football, I I don't I don't think that's I don't think that's a good stretch.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

That was the only one out of the ones I kind of provided is that that homelessness and the policy and right political it's it's just you're talking out of you know if it was a national priority, we would have ended it. We would have ended it, yeah. Exactly. So it's you one thing to say it, but then to follow through on it's all thing. On your side, I mean the housing costs. I mean that's just absolutely that's a that's 100% correct. I mean, we're seeing that housing is going up everywhere and incomes are not. And so when someone is struggling and rent continues to increase, but their salaries not, and it's it's just very difficult. Um, I also think the disparities with persist with with uh these uh categories you gave. I think the youth the youth is another one in there. Youth is another one. I think the elderly that we're seeing an increase on, these are all that it continues to grow, these these kind of um, you know, the the these people are are struggling and we're seeing increases in all these different categories. Um but yeah, I think some of this is is yeah, even in fragile.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

I mean that's well I think it all comes back though to the housing. Right, yeah. You know, if you look at all of these different things, they're you know, how homelessness remains high and widespread, housing costs are high are high, as I was gonna say. Yep. Why is it uneven and fragile? Why is the progress uneven and fragile? Because housing keeps going up in different areas. Yep, some areas it's not as high, and homelessness isn't as high.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

You know, all of these different things are still tied back to the lack of affordable housing and the scalability of the resources that we have to try and keep people from becoming homeless or getting into homelessness. Even the support systems being strained with mental health care, right? You know, all that.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

No, and we and we're talking about overcrowdedness of shelters. Yes, they are. Yeah, but it's hard to get people out into an apartment when the cost is double of their what they're bringing in and they can't afford. So what they they have we have to keep them somewhere instead of putting them back out on the street. I mean, and of course they're gonna be crowded just because the cost of living is just extreme out here.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Well, and I know you well, you and I were just having a conversation not too long ago about family members of yours who are working two, three, four jobs just to try to get by because the housing costs and the cost of living are so expensive now that people have to work multiple jobs.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

You have to live with with roommates, you have to live with because you can't, it's impossible to be by yourself with you know with what the salaries are. And I'm just talking about Florida right now. Absolutely of what the salaries are, it's it's hard to get by. You know, so yeah, yeah. So uh Pathite Homes position is while we have not completely ended homelessness nationwide, we have shown that it could be ended in specific populations and places when solutions are adequately funded, coordinated, and sustained.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Yeah, and I think the coordination is one of the bigger things there. Um, because again, we don't talk about that enough, I don't think, in the homeless service system about how important that coordination is. Um, I know we have a pretty coordinated system here in Central Florida, but not all systems are really that coordinated. And if you can have that coordination, it makes the funding easier, it makes the sustainability easier, and the data portion of it is we talked about that as well.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Is if you don't have good data and you can't really see when people are either becoming homeless or they're moving out of homelessness, then it messes up your entire me being out here for nine years now and working in this field out here for about eight of those, I've seen the coordination, how it's evolved, yeah, how it's gotten better, there's more collaboration, there's more communication, there's more transparency, yeah, which has been really, really good because now everybody's kind of on the same page, on the same boat, and there's a system in place for everyone to kind of follow as long as you're part of that coordinated entry system.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

And and what we've shown is that the performance goes up when that happens. I mean, you know, the performance continues to go up across our system here because of that coordination. And again, don't get me wrong, the funding comes along with that. Right. And having our funders on board is part of that coordination, is really making sure that we're all we're all you know roam in the same direction.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Yeah, I think some agencies, like we said earlier, who don't want to be part of the HMIS system and kind of want to work in a silo. It's okay. You want to end homelessness and you want to house people, but you need help. Yeah, because you don't have all the resources, you don't have all the answers. Some other agency might. That's a good thing. And if you're not working together, it kind of, you know, it just slows the process down. Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

It just slows it down. I agree. So all right. Well, we've made it to the halfway point, and during halftime, we want to take a moment for fan interaction and highlight an inspired quote related to housing and homelessness.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

All right. So let's start hearing from our listeners. So this question comes from Mike. Um, this is for you, call. Places like California, so we're gonna talk about California, spend a lot of money trying to end homelessness, homelessness, yet seem to be unsuccessful. Is the reason because they don't have enough money or are they not using it effectively?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

This is a good question. This falls right into it. And we've talked about this. I think I think it's more of the of the second one. I think they're not using it as effectively as they could. I on an individual basis, I think the I have no doubt that on an individual basis, the majority of providers in California are doing what they're supposed to be doing or trying to do what they're supposed to be doing with the money that they have.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

The problem is across the state, even sometimes in specific counties, they are just not coordinated enough. They're not working together enough to be able to solve bigger problems and solve bigger issues.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

Again, working in that silo.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

And and look, don't get me wrong, they have a huge, they have a steep hill to climb because the housing costs and the cost of living there is so high. It is not a great place to live if you are not making a big salary out there. But if you don't coordinate, if you don't work with each other, if you don't work together as a system, all moving in the same direction, again, just like any good football team, right? You gotta move together. You can't have one person, you know, running one play and another person running another play. It's just chaos. It's chaos. You've got to work together. And if you do that, the money that they have out there, the the availability of the funds that they have out there, which is immense. You know, people would other portions of the country would kill to be able to have that money available to their populations. But it it I don't want to say it gets wasted because that's not the right word, really. But it's mismanaged. It's mismanaged, it's not as effective, it's just inefficient when you're not working together and all doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 30:14

And we talked about that in one of our podcasts recently about uh funding and and how you know the responsibility of the funder, the responsibility of the organization, and setting goals and priorities and and you know, reporting and making sure that it's not being handled incorrectly and the outcomes are the same and you're getting results. But I agree with you. I think it's not that they don't have enough money, it's just not being handled correctly.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

I I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

And whoever is overseeing that needs to kind of crunch down a little bit harder and see how it's being spent and what the solutions are of what that money's going to. So yeah. And and and here's the thing it'll be great to have that money for us over here. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

The reality is I'm not sure, and and I don't think they're sure whether they have enough money or not. And it's because they're not coordinated. If they were more coordinated, they would be able to tell you exactly how much money it would cost to be able to get people out of homelessness or to be able to change their situation.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

And where to allocate it, who to allocate it to, who needs it the most, what county, what city, yeah. Because they're just splurging it out, and you know, then these smaller communities are not getting it with less resources. Yes, it they're not going to be successful in getting people off the street. So all right, next question for Carl is uh this comes from Anthony. Um, as a community member, what is the one statistic or number that would tell me that we are reducing homelessness? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

That's a good question. Um Wow, what's the one statistic or number that will tell you if we're reducing homelessness? Um, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

You think recidivism is a good one?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

I think recidivism is a good number. There's no doubt about that.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

Um that'll definitely give you who's going in, who's coming back out of housing, and how long. Because we talk about someone going in and you know how we keep track of them after they leave us and you know, six months, nine months, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yes. Um let me say let me back into this a little bit. Let me say what's not what are not good numbers or not good statistics. Yep. Seeing people on the side of the street and how many people you pass on your way into work or how many people you see panhandle at a street corner is not a good number. It's not a good statistic, and it's not a good way to measure whether whether you're ending homelessness or not.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

That that's not a good measure. First of all, some of those people, and I will argue a majority of the people out there aren't even homeless. They have a place to go. It might be a cheap place, it might not be the best place, but a lot of them have places that they can go. So that's the first thing is uh that's a bad way to do it. I want to say the point in time count, but you know, the point in time count is a slice. I mean, it's one slice and each community is different. Now, if you're doing the point in time count the same way every year and you're doing the point in time count relatively, you know, equally, I guess, across your entire region, it can be a good, it can be a good starting point. So I would say use that as your starting point. The number that you're looking for is 0.03% of the population or of your total population or less that's homeless. If you can get to 0.03% of your population or less, then absolutely in your area. In your area, in your area, in your county, your city, whatever it is, your total population. That's a pretty good bear. They call it the um there was uh it was called uh back in the day, we used to, and I say back in the day, in the 1990s. You remember that was the good old days, the good old days. Um the Barry University uh factor is what they called it. Barry University came up, they did a study, and they said that in most places, if your homelessness is less than 0.03%, you're doing a pretty good job, you know, at least managing your homeless issues. Um there is a st there is a study that was done that links your um your housing numbers, your point-in-time count numbers to your to the uh to the cost of rent in a community, your median cost of rent. Okay. Um it was done by I think uh oh man, I can't think of the gentleman's name right now. But um anyway, it was done by researcher, done by a professor. Um I'll try and have it for our next episode. I'll see if I can pull it up and and have it. But what they showed is when when your rent gets to a certain level based off uh the rent versus the income, that your homelessness rises when the ratio is out of out of what or whatever. So your area meeting income versus your rent will make there's some factor in there. And I'll try and like I said, I'll try to do that.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

It increases the chances of you becoming homeless.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

But that's the best one that I've seen so far because in in in every place that they research, and they use all the continuum of cares across the United States, or m the majority of them, every place except one, uh it the factor actually worked. So when you're when your median income did not keep up with your median rent, basically, is what it is, then homelessness increased. And in every case, whenever they ran the the statistic on the locations, it was good, except one Houston, which Houston again several years this was done several years ago, I think 2020. Um Houston at the time had like reduced their their homelessness in half or something. I mean they had just crushed it, and and so the so the factor didn't really factor for them, but every other place it did. And so I'll I'll get that information. I'll get that information. All right. Uh time to get inspired by our quote of the week. This quote comes from Project Home. Uh, none of us are home until all of us are home. There you go. And I think that's the thing that people have to understand about homelessness is it affects all of us. You may not think that it does, you may not think it doesn't touch you because maybe you live in some gated community or something, you don't see people in your neighborhood or whatever the case is, but it affects you. It affects the costs of insurance going up, it costs your it affects your health care costs, it affects the taxes you pay, it affects everything about our society is affected by the people who don't have enough in our society and who we have to try and help in our society.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

It might not affect you inside your gated community, but outside of it.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Outside. It does. Once you leave your community, it affects everything that's well, and you're again, like I said, taxes. You know, you're paying taxes like everybody else is. Yep. In most cases. So it it affects it affects us all. And that's why we need to try to get everybody off of the streets. Because if we can do that, it'll be a better community for all of us.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

Definitely. All right, and that concludes our halftime. Uh please stay with us after this short message.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Hello, I'm Gigi Ramirez, the Senior Director of Fundraising and Engagement here at Pathlight Home. For over 30 years, we've helped more than 8,000 people transition from homelessness to hope. But when someone moves from the streets to their own home, they often have nothing. That's why we provide immediate essentials, everything from bedding and food to soap and cookware to help them truly feel at home. Beyond housing, PathLite offers career training and supportive services, like our 12-week culinary program, helping residents gain skills, find jobs, and rebuild independence. You can be part of the story, volunteer your time, donate essential goods, or become a monthly Pathlight hero, ensuring every neighbor has a chance to thrive.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Visit pathlighthome.org to donate today, it's now time to kick off the third quarter by looking at our NFL home team locks of the week. So here we go, Danny. Uh I'll start with the fantasy football player pick of the week. Uh, I just want to go back. Uh, I don't know why I want to go back because it didn't work out well for me again. But the last time that I made a pick, I was picking Rico Rico Dowdle, uh running back for Carolina. They were playing Tampa Bay. He was projected to get nine points. And of course, as usual, Danny, he scored four points for us. I don't know why. I I don't know what it is that's uh I don't know why I can't pick any players for the week. Fantasy football players are not my uh not my strong suit. Uh there is no fantasy flashback this week, and the reason is because uh most uh uh NFL uh or the NFL season has not been 18 weeks very long. So I didn't want to just pick one out of like last year or something like that. Makes sense. All right, so let's look at our NFL home team locks of the week. Um so our lock of the week results. Um let's see. Uh uh my last selection that I made was uh your Dallas Cowboys, Danny. I didn't even bet against the Dallas Cowboys to beat the LA Chargers. And of course, they did not do so. Yep. The LA Chargers won 34 to 17. It was a pitiful display by your Cowboys, I'll have to say. Thank you. 17 points. Thank you for having me reliving. It's the Chargers who are not that good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Dang it, Danny. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Anyway, it's the season we've had.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

All right, go ahead, Danny.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Who did you have? So I had the 49ers against the Colts, and unfortunately, 49ers uh the Colts lost uh 48 to 27. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

So we both lost that one. Yeah. All right, which makes my standing for the week after that one six and ten. Wow. And Danny, I think you are eight and eight, so you're right at 500. 500, yep. We just got one more week. I know. One week left.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

So pretty safe to say I won this. Is it safe to say that? Is it safe to say that?

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Is it safe? You're not even in contention. Gone it. This is great. I'm two games back with one game to go. That's not that's not a good place to be in. All right. So who do you have next week? All right. So this week I'm selecting San Francisco to win at home versus Seattle. And this is for, I think this is for the number one seed in the NFC, I believe. Oh. Uh I believe whoever wins this game can be the number one seed, I think.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Um, so I'm picking San Francisco to to win this one at home.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Yep, and I have Miami against New England. They're at home and picking New England. They're having a really good season.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

They are.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

Um, Miami not so great, but that's who I'm picking. So, I mean, right now it don't matter. I won the I I won this.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

So Danny, you're high stepping on me. Okay. Okay. I've been hearing about the Bears for the past couple of weeks. Yes. The Bears won the NFC North. Did you hear that?

SPEAKER_04 42:00

I just wanted to my boon got eliminated right away. You know, at the end. How boy didn't make it to playoffs all.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yes, this is all I have right now.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yes, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

All right, I did want to go back um from our last segment. I did research and find the the name of the author, or one of the authors, I should say, uh, for the research study, his name is Dennis Colhain, C-U-L-H-A-N-E, I believe is how you spell it. Um uh his him and his team did the study that I was talking about that compares the the average median income with the average rent in an area, and when the ratio gets out of whack or or at or meets a certain ratio level, homelessness increases after that. So people can go find that study and um look for themselves. But I think that's that's a really good way to measure whether you're reducing homelessness or not, is if you get below that factor. So back to Anthony's question, I think it was um that's the factor I would use is go find that study, use that factor. And if your uh community is below that number, uh then there's probably a good chance that you're you're doing a good job at least uh managing, if not reducing, homelessness. So very good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

All right. Okay, uh stay tuned for our wrap-up after this message.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Hello everyone. I'm Carl Falconer, the president and CEO of Pathlight Home. And I'm often asked by many in the community, what can I do to help end homelessness? I would like to invite you to join Pathlight Home's efforts. PathLite Home is a 501c3 nonprofit organization in Central Florida. We currently have 560 units of housing that we provide to individuals experiencing homelessness. But we also provide additional support through employment resource centers and mental health services. We have a drop in day center where people can come in from the heat. Do laundry, get meals, all in preparation to get them into housing eventually and off the streets. Community involvement is key to the success of our efforts, and we love when community members want to get involved with Pathlight Home. There are three things we invite you to do to help. Number one, consider supporting us with funding. No donation is too small, and every dollar has an impact on our community. You can go to pathlighthome.org and click our donate button to contribute anytime. Number two is volunteering. We love to have volunteers come in and help us with any of our projects. We have ongoing projects and needs, but are also open to individuals and groups sharing specific talents in ways that build up our residence. Number three is take a tour with us. Come here to our facility and see what we do for yourself. It's the best way to get an inside look at what we're doing at Pathlight Home each day. We think it's important to understand the work it takes to fight homelessness and love the opportunity to meet community members who are passionate about the issue. We love our Central Florida community and are grateful every day for the continued support. And again, to get involved, go to pathlethome.org. Thank you. Welcome to the fourth quarter, well where we will wind down this episode by reflecting on a homelessness MVP and fumble of the week before wrapping up with our key takeaway.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

All right, so let's start with our MVP of the week. So an article from the Seattle Times in August highlighted how travel writer and TV host Rick Steves, hey, I remember him, saved the yeah, it shows my age. Uh saved the Linwood Hygiene Center in Sono Sonohomish County, Washington by purchasing the property that houses it for $2.25 million. The center, which serves about 700 unsheltered people with showers, meals, laundry, medical care, and social services, was facing uh closure after its longtime landlord decided to sell the building. After learning about the impending closure through local news, Steve quickly stepped in, contacted the nonprofit's director, and negotiated the purchase. His gift, combined with an influx of community donations, ensured the center would remain open and even expand its services. The center, originally open during the COVID-19 pandemic, had become a vital public health and community resource for people people living in encampments who otherwise had no local access to basic hygiene or care. Beyond keeping the doors open, Steve's planned uh improvements such as new showers, upgraded laundry equipment, extended hours, and potential use as a winter shelter. He framed the purchase as a gift to his homeless neighbors and a statement about human dignity, which also emphasizing the long-term solutions to homelessness should come from public investment, not reliance on individual donors. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

That's a great story, right?

SPEAKER_04 47:15

Do you remember Rick Steves? I remember Rick Steves.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

I don't remember him specifically. I think I know who he is, but I but no, I don't know him specifically.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

This is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Yeah, this is great. I mean, and again, it shows that public-private partnership. Um, you know, somebody stepping in who has the means and has the ability to do so and really helping keeping the doors open. Um I wish they had dug a little deeper and talked about some housing because you know, the day center is great and we have a drop-in center ourselves, which is fantastic. But again, it's about trying to get people into housing and you know, serving services a lot of people. Yeah, serving 700 unsheltered people is really a lot, and being able to put them in housing could put a real dent in some homeless numbers. So, you know, hopefully, hopefully they're getting people housed through this as well. So, and and I I love that he framed it as a a purchase as a gift to his homeless neighbors because again, people don't think of people that way that are out on the streets, but they are our neighbors. They're neighbors, yeah. They are in fact part of our community, and we really need to be responsible and help them as much as we possibly can.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

Yeah, that's what I would all right.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Now onto our fumble of the week. Uh, this one comes from the United Kingdom. I went I went across the sea. Across the sea.

SPEAKER_04 48:39

Just to show up, show how homeless is not just here. Absolutely. It's everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Uh shelter and a trades union have combined to blame what they call sky-high private rents for contributing towards homelessness this Christmas. Research from the campaigning charity and the NASUWT teaching union claims that 52% of teachers in the state sector in England have worked at a school with children who are homeless in the past year. A statement from Shelter says that with a record 175,025 children stuck homeless in temporary accommodation, many are growing up without a safe and secure home, experiencing exhaustion, missed school days, and poor mental health. Again, this comes back to it affects us all.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

And uh this is just another example of that. Three-quarters, 76%, of the teachers who responded said that being homeless had led to children performing poorly in assessments or exams, as people would expect. Nine in ten, ninety-two percent respondents said children experiencing homelessness have arrived at school tired. The fact that families living in temporary accommodation are routinely placed out of area, resulting in longer school journeys, and children often share beds with parents or siblings are both likely to become to be contributing factors. Over eight in ten, eighty-three percent, said that children have missed days of school. It can be very challenging for parents to get children to school while living in temporary accommodations as they can be moved around from place to place at very short notice. And finally, three-quarters or 75% said that homelessness has had a significant impact on the mental health of the children they teach. The organizations blame the dire shortage of social homes, that would be subsidized housing in America, sky-high private rents, and the freeze on housing benefits as creating the problems. Sarah Elliott, chief executive of Shelter, says the housing emergency is infiltrating our classrooms and robbing children of their most basic need of a safe and secure home. Children shouldn't have to try and balance their studies with the horrific experience of homelessness. And I agree, Sarah. Absolutely. And so, yeah, it it's a good example that you know homelessness happens everywhere. Everywhere. And, you know, especially with kids, and even though this definition of homelessness is a little different than what we use typically, our HUD definition of literal homelessness, because most of this, it sounds like is couch surfing and people moving around and things like that. Yep. But even with those accommodations and those, you know, unstable accommodations.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

That's what I was gonna say. It's not stable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

Kids are affected by this. And when kids are affected, then their schooling is is worse, then we're losing you know, intellectual abilities, and we're losing that capability in our system for long-term growth.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

And and these and these kids are the future of this of well, of the United Kingdom. Absolutely. Or even if they move here.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

And without this education, how you know they they might grow up still being homeless. That's right. You know what I mean? And so it's like a cycle going on. So I just wanted to show how it just it's not just we talk about here, here, but it's everywhere. It is homelessness is everywhere, it does it affects everyone.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

And again, the sky high private rents, it comes down to the cost of housing. Yeah and it comes down to the availability of having affordable housing in any community. It doesn't matter if it's here or there or wherever it is. It doesn't matter. It's a it has to come down to that affordable housing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

All right, and finally, here's our key takeaway for this episode. It is possible to end homelessness in our country. When we get the political will, the community support, and the resources to scale proven strategies, it will make our community better than they have ever been.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

That's true. Uh and again, we talked about all those things together. We need the political will, we need the community support, we need the resources to be able to scale everything.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

It's a collaborative effort. Everybody has to be involved.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

So all right. Well, that concludes our episode for the week. Um, Daney, I want to wish you a happy new year. You too. Because I won't see you until the next year on our episode. And I want to wish all of our listeners a happy new year as well. Um remember, if you have any questions or comments for us, please email us at questions at pathlighthome.org. As always, we leave the last words for our beloved co-founder, the late Reverend Fred Maxwell. Take it away.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

I'm still dreaming. I'm still dreaming that we will become uh able and sufficient to increase uh the housing of homeless. This is merely a beginning.