19. What is the Point In Time Count?

On this week’s episode of the HOME Team Podcast, Carl Falconer and Danny Arroyo break down the Point-in-Time Count, a HUD-mandated snapshot used nationwide to better understand homelessness in our communities. They explain how the count works, who it includes, and why it’s more than just a number—it’s a critical tool for planning services, allocating funding, and engaging the community.

In Offense vs. Defense, they debate whether every community should conduct a PIT Count annually, weighing the benefits of trend analysis and community engagement against concerns about undercounting, data limitations, and resource strain.

The episode also highlights:
• Why PIT Counts often miss the “hidden homeless”
• How volunteers play a vital role—and what they should (and shouldn’t) do
• A local MVP story from Bithlo, Florida, where a cold-night shelter stepped in to save lives
• A troubling fumble involving an encampment sweep during freezing weather
• How moving people disrupts outreach, housing placements, and trust

The key takeaway: the PIT Count isn’t just about data—it’s about dignity, visibility, and making sure people experiencing homelessness know they are seen and cared for.

Email questions: ⁠⁠questions@pathlighthome.org⁠⁠

Support, volunteer, or tour: PathlightHOME.org

Produced by Gigi Ramirez and Jay Falconer.

Music and Sound Design by Kwon

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Home Team Podcast. I'm Carl Falconer and I'm Danny Arroyo. And we're tackling homelessness.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Today in our podcast, we'll discuss two of our passions, football and ending homelessness. Please join us through four quarters with our topic this week being what is the point in time count, or the pit count, as we call it in the industry. How was your weekend, Danny?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Uh it was okay. Went to Disney Springs just to get out of the house. Okay. Um, and then just had some car issues with my daughter, so trying to fix that all the weekend. Yeah. So it was a busy weekend just trying to get things together for a while. Did you eat some good food at Disney Springs? Uh we had uh we ate at Splitzville. We like splits. We always like having appetizers. Yeah, we like having appetizers and stuff. It was so packed that everything was just the wait times right. Oh, it's ridiculous. So Splitzville was quick and yeah, it's good uh fast stuff, I guess. So yeah, how's your silly?

SPEAKER_03 1:16

It was good. It was good. Um let me see. Uh pretty much just chilled for most of the weekend, I guess. Really relaxed, um, did some work around the house, and that was about it. So yeah, good. Good weekend. Absolutely. All right. Well, as usual, uh, we will start it with a coin toss. So, Danny, go ahead and call it in the air.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

We'll do heads.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

It is heads, so you get to start us off.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Perfect. All right, so welcome to our first quarter. I'm going to kick off by defining our topic of the week, and then we will cover some news headlines and announce the results from last week's home team locks of the week. So, as Carl said earlier, our topic this week is what is the point in time count? Uh so a homeless point in time count is a systematic effort to count the number of people experiencing homelessness at a single specific moment, usually during one designated night. It includes individuals who are unsheltered living on the street, in vehicles, or places not meant for habitation, and those who are sheltered staying in emergency shelters or transitional housing. The count provides a snapshot of homelessness on that exact date, not an estimate over time. Government and service organizations use pit counts to assess the scale of homelessness, plan services, allocate funding, and track changes when the count is repeated annually.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yeah, this is good. Um so uh so a lot of people are unfamiliar still with the point in time count or the pit count. So this is a uh HUD-designated um item or task, I guess, that they ask us to do every other year, actually. It's mandated that we have to count uh every other year for for uh HUD's requirements. Um but generally in most places that I've been they try to do it every year so that they can get that trending data um and have that available. Um and it's not just a count, even though you know it's called a point-in-time count. There's really surveys that go on, and it's trying to gather that information from people out on the streets or people that are homeless to try to find out kind of what their needs are.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

So um yeah, and it and it's a voluntary thing for people that you know are out down the street, but it's a good way for not only to interact with them but get more information out of them, probably give them some information they don't have and you know, just help them along the way. But yeah, it I've been doing it for I know you've been doing it longer than I have, but I've been doing it for about eight years. I started at the shelter doing it there, yeah. Um, counting the people in the shelter, but also the meals that we were serving at night. Um, so it was uh it was a lot of people at that time. Um, but no, it's now they do it more than one day. In the beginning, it was when I started doing it, it was just one night. Now it's I think two days, right? Three, three, three days. Three this year, yeah. So you actually get a better count because you just you might miss some people on that one night.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Um, so and usually when we go out there, like last year we went out a lot, and they were like, Nope, we already been surveyed, we already spoke to that person. So, but it's I think it's a good way to count um or get some more data of those. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

And that's the idea is to get the data, to get some trending information, and to really give people an opportunity to give us feedback. Yeah. This is kind of our customer satisfaction survey in some in some ways um from year to year. And uh we'll talk a little bit more uh in-depth about it with offense defense, but um, but we just want you to be but the the main thing right now is we want you to to understand that the point in time count is happening at the end of January. It always happens at the end of January per HUD guidelines, and so it is happening in all of your areas, no matter where you're listening from, it's happening in your area. Please reach out to your continuums of care in your area and find out how you can volunteer to be part of the point in time count because they're always looking for volunteers, and so make sure that you reach out to them or go to their website and make sure that you find out how to volunteer.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, and I think that's what makes it good doing this with they they make it easy for you. So as you volunteer, you pick where you want to go. That way you don't have to drive. You live in Seminole, you don't want to drive to Orange County, or you know, they they make it easy for you to get to that location.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

And and you might only have to do a four-hour shift or something like that, one day, you know, you don't have to be there the whole time, all of that stuff. And there are team leads that are involved in this. So, you know, a lot of our staff here at Pathlight Home will be team leads and we'll take teams out so you don't even have to worry about how to do it. There's training involved, and they'll set everything up for you. So it's really, really simple. Basically, you just have to show up.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

And um, and be you know open to the experience of going out and talking with people and gathering some information.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Definitely.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

So, anyway, all right. Uh now let's take a look at some of the headlines from our homeless world. So, this headline takes us to Tampa, Florida. Uh, James Fishbeck is a 30-year-old long shot Republican candidate running for governor. I did not write long shot, by the way. Uh, that was part of the article. So uh he is known for taking hard stances on several issues, including immigration and homelessness. And these are his words on day one. If you elect me your governor, I will deploy the Florida National Guard to our major cities to clean up our downtowns to secure our streets, Fishbag said. The candidate released a message on social media about battling concerns over camping and sleeping in public areas. He's aiming to go a step further on enforcing a 2024 state law that bans sleeping and camping in parks and on sidewalks. The homeless situation in Jacksonville, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, and Orlando is out of control, Fishback said. Thomas Brown is the founder of a nonprofit, Tampa Homeless Outreach, mainly helping veterans. He says, I go out seven days a week. I go into woods, under overpasses, in the back of alleys, bars, wherever I must go to try and find them, Brown said. Brown knows this issue is complex, but he wants the focus to be on increasing investment in shelter options. These people just fell on hard times and they just need help, Brown said. Brown does not agree with Fishback, calling for the state to reopen controversial psychiatric facilities to treat chronically ill, homeless people with mental health illnesses. They deserve more care. I'd buy a hotel and man it with veterans, and the staff would be veterans, and we will take care of this problem, Brown said. So obviously, you have two different viewpoints there in the headlines. And again, this goes back to kind of some of the things that we've been talking about before this, which is you know, just that whole idea of um uh the encampments and what to do with it and things like that. I note uh that Fishback only points out the large cities in in Florida, like there isn't homelessness in rural counties. There's definitely homelessness in rural counties, uh, but I notice he only points out the the major cities and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, I think he's just he doesn't he doesn't understand. Again, it's a political it's a political topic.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

We're trying he's trying to win points politically by you know saying he's gonna do this, saying he's gonna do that. And the other part is is he mentions all these big cities, but I doubt he lives in all of these big cities. So I'm sure he doesn't even have an idea of what's going on in half of these cities.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

And again, he wants to clean it up and he just wants to do it outside, out of mind, kind of constantly and not exactly and not address what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

So exactly, as opposed to Brown, who's out there on the streets, who's talking with people, and who knows exactly what will work and what won't.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

I love I love his idea about getting a hotel and having it manned by veterans and just David. That's a great idea. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

It's you know getting people off of the street and trying to provide services. All right, Danny. So let's see how our cowboys and our bears did this week. We could bypass this at the time. No, no, no. We're we're sitting on this one. This one's good for sure. Of course. All right, we'll start with you and your cowboys.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, so we had our last game of the season, didn't really matter. But unfortunately, we played the Giants, which I thought was going to be an easy win for us. And we did not win that game. We won 30, we lost 34-17. I told my wife, this is so bad we're not even on TV. I know.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

So halfway through the game, they took out the Dak and everything.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

We just had a bad season. It's just let's just see what happens next year.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Just trying to get through it.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Just trying to get through it pretty much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

So on the other side, uh, my Bears played the Lions. Unfortunately, we lost 1916. We did like we almost have done the entire season as we got behind, we came back, we got close. Uh at the end, though, they were able to pull it off with just a field goal at the end of it to win it. Um, it really didn't mean that much to us. Um, we kind of had an eye on the Philadelphia game, and Philadelphia lost anyway. And with them losing, we secured the number two seed in the playoffs for the NFC. Did you hear that, Danny? Pretty good. Bears are in the playoffs. I heard about it. I didn't know you'd be. I heard. Anyway, uh, so next week's opponent, um Danny, who's y'all's opponent next week?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So we will be probably uh, I don't know, playing the cheerleaders something. I have no idea. Or maybe a high school team. You're not in the play. Maybe a high school team. I don't know. Okay. And we'll probably lose that as well. Maybe so. But no, our season's over, so there's no uh no next week.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

I noticed there was a big hole here in our in our run. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you have you have the Packers. We have the Packers next week. They're coming to us again. Wow. So this will be the third time this year. We've each won one game. Uh they won theirs at home, we won ours at home. So hopefully we'll be able to do something.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

You got the home field advantage, which is always a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

We do have the home field advantage. I hope maybe we can start a little better this week uh rather than getting behind by a whole bunch of points. Did the Packers win this week? Uh the Packers uh no, they played the Vikings and the Vikings beat them. They beat them, okay. Uh, in Minnesota. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Exactly. So but I think they rested pretty much all of their starters uh because they didn't they were already locked into their seat for the playoffs.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

That's a smart thing to do. Yeah, yeah. All right, um, perfect. So uh that's that wraps up the first quarter. We will be back after this break.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Hello everyone. I'm Carl Falconer, the president and CEO of Pathlight Home. And I'm often asked by many in the community, what can I do to help end homelessness? I would like to invite you to join PathLight Home's efforts. Pathlight Home is a 501c3 nonprofit organization in Central Florida. We currently have 560 units of housing that we provide to individuals experiencing homelessness. But we also provide additional support through employment resource centers and mental health services. We have a drop-in day center where people can come in from the heat, do laundry, get meals, all in preparation to get them into housing eventually and off the streets. Community involvement is key to the success of our efforts, and we love when community members want to get involved with Pathlight Home. There are three things we invite you to do to help. Number one, consider supporting us with funding. No donation is too small, and every dollar has an impact on our community. You can go to pathlitehome.org and click our donate button to contribute anytime. Number two is volunteering. We love to have volunteers come in and help us with any of our projects. We have ongoing projects and needs, but are also open to individuals and groups sharing specific talents in ways that build up our residence. Number three is take a tour with us. Come here to our facility and see what we do for yourself. It's the best way to get an inside look at what we're doing at Pathlight Home each day. We think it's important to understand the work it takes to fight homelessness and love the opportunity to meet community members who are passionate about the issue. We love our Central Florida community and are grateful every day for the continued support. And again, to get involved, go to pathlighthome.org. Thank you. This is the second quarter. We're getting a little deeper into a homelessness topic with something we call offense versus defense. We will each take turns discussing some opposing viewpoints of our topic this week. The question we ask this week is should every community do a point-in-time count each year? Please remember that we're trying to show both sides of the issue. These do not necessarily reflect our individual stances on these positions. So should each community do a point-in-time count each year? I'll take the offense, which will be yes, and I'll give you my viewpoints on why I think uh every community should. Uh, first, uh trend analysis. I talked about this a little bit in our opening. Uh the annual count provides a standardized baseline to track homelessness trends over time at both local and national levels. Now, again, I want to point out this is just trend analysis. It does not necessarily mean that it's the most accurate count. And we're not trying to say that when I say, you know, the trend analysis, but it is valuable to be able to do it the same way every single year. Uh performance measurement. Communities use the data to gauge the progress of their specific interventions and identify gaps in the local homelessness assistance system. Again, I think this is a valid point. Uh it does measure some gaps. Community engagement. The process mobilizes volunteers, educates the public on local needs, and provides opportunities to distribute supplies, such as Narcan or vaccines, or cold weather gear to unsheltered individuals. Actionable data points. The count captures specific information not always available in the standard homeless management information system or HMIS. Uh, as most of you will recall, that's the data system that we use on a regular basis. Most providers use. Um, such as where an individual slept the previous night or their length of residence in a city. So it does capture a couple of different data points that we don't normally capture. All right, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

All right, so I have the defense, which is the no. Uh so first is resource intensive. Conducting the count annually requires substantial staff time and city resources that could otherwise be redirected toward deeper analysis of year-round data or program implementation. Uh significant undercounting. The pick count only captures a snapshot of a single night in January, often missing the hitting homeless uh such as families living in motels or doubling up with others to escape the cold. Inconsistent methodology. Uh, methods vary widely between communities and years, making it difficult to draw accurate comparisons or identify long-term trends. Program assessment lag. Uh biannual uh account uh every other year uh may be more effective for assessing program changes that require a phased approach, as annual shifts in data may not reflect long-term effectiveness. Flawed incentives. Because federal funding is sometimes tied to decreasing numbers, uh communities may have an unintended incentive to under-identify homeless uh individuals, and that's reliance of anecdotal data. Critics argue that year-round data for from providers, HMIS, is more reliable and comprehensive than a one-night count. All right. So I think I think for me, I'm gonna just I want to touch a little bit more on mine, what I just said. The one with the um undercounting. I think we addressed it last year with with um HSN about the hidden homeless. We talked a lot about uh vehicles, people living in vehicles and trying to locate that. I think you got you part of that committee this year to figure out how we can count those that are out because those are all scattered everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Um, but I think for yours, um I I think the analysis part is I mean, we have to collect data on all this stuff. We have to, that's the best way for us to figure out who's out there, what has changed. We saw last year that the elderly increased, the youth increased. Yeah, so I think these are all great ways to find new trends that are happening, how the population is changing. Yeah, and then of course the performance measurement. I mean, that's we have to do that just to figure out how we're gonna fix whatever's going on out there. So yeah, so go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Well, I like on my part, uh on my side, I like the community engagement. I think that's a really valuable part of the point of time count that gets overlooked by a lot of people. When we first started doing point-of-time count way back in the day, we just wanted to go out and so we only use service providers. And service providers are great, and we went out and we did our count and you know, all that. But once we started getting the community involved, that really changed the game because it really gave people an opportunity who were not providers to go out and see and meet people who they had you know stereotypes about, who they believed certain, you know, myths or stories about, and actually talk with people and understand who the people were who were actually out on the streets. So I think that's one of the biggest things uh that can be a lot of people. Out of yours, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Out of ours, out of mine, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Um on your side, I think the um one of the things that I'd never thought about uh until you brought it up was the program assessment lag. In other words, doing it every two years because it it actually might be more valuable for trend analysis. And I like their point here that sometimes in a year, you know, it takes longer than a year to actually get the data that you need for a program to work. I mean, we do the point-in-time count in January, the HUD NOFO comes out, you know, sometimes usually in the summer, which is our application for HUD funding. We get awarded the money the next year. Well, we don't have enough time to be able to implement the changes that we wanted to do. Even if we could change it, you know, right away and start pilot programs, let's say in May of the year after the point in time count, that's still only about seven months worth of work. You might not see that in the next year's point in time count. But if you waited an extra year, then the trend analysis might get more uh valuable to you.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah, because when we do the pick count, it's not like those numbers come out in a month. We we have to wait a while for those numbers to come out to even see what the trends are, what's changed, absolutely for us to then start addressing what's increased, what's decreased, you know, just figuring that out.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

So the significant undercounting, that's uh something that we're always going to deal with. I mean, the point in time count is not you know the be-all end-all in terms of counting. The problem with the significant undercounting is that once the homeless numbers come out, once the point-and-time count numbers come out, everybody gravitates toward uh towards it as this is what our homeless numbers are. That's not true. That is absolutely not true. It's a snapshot of a single night or a single series of nights in January. And even when we do it over three nights, we always go back to one specific night when they were homeless for the point in time count. And so uh that I don't think is really is is really that significant as long as we understand that we're just comparing the point in time count this year's to last year's, last year's to the years before. We're looking at that trend analysis, and as long as you do it the same way, then you don't have to worry about that undercount. Because if we undercounted last year or we undercount this year, we undercounted last year, we undercounted the year before. It's the same undercount, but it doesn't make any difference. I mean, as long as you do it the same way.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Um In in terms of the flawed incentives, HUD has really changed that. Um they have uh they although they do give numbers for your point in time count, or they do give points on the NOFO, the application for HUD funding, they do give points for your numbers going down. The reality is that it's not enough points to actually make that big of a difference on the application. And um what HUD does give more points for now is system performance and how your system is performing and how you're doing. So HUD's moved away from that. I remember back in the day, they used to give almost half of the points just for your point in time count. And that was that was definitely flawed. There's no doubt about that. But nowadays it's not the case.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

What do you think of the last point I gave about the the data, the the year-round uh well?

SPEAKER_03 22:49

I think that's the problem. I think that goes back to the significant undercounting is when you rely on the on this information at the point in time count as your be-all end-all for the information, exactly, then you're doing yourself a disservice. We have the we have the homeless management information system, and like we talked about on our last episode, as long as you've got enough providers in there and you're collecting enough of the data in HMIS, then you should be using that to determine what the changes are in your system overall. But the point-in-time count gives us trend data, and again, I'll go back to what my I again, my favorite part of the point-in-time count is the community engagement. Yeah, is getting people out on the streets, talking with people who are experiencing homelessness who are not part of our system, who don't know this world, who don't know, you know, who've never met somebody who's experiencing homelessness, and talking to them and having a conversation and understanding that this is a human being out here on the streets, trying to survive, trying to get themselves to a better situation in their life. That to me is the most valuable part of the point-in-time count.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah, definitely. All right, so we've made it to the halfway point, and during halftime, we want to take a moment for fan interaction and highlight an inspired quote related to housing and homelessness.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

All right, so uh the fan interaction, I have this portion. There are no new questions this week. So I thought we would try something a little bit different in this this uh this section, Danny. Um what I'd like to hear from you, and and I'll throw in some as well, is some of the best and worst questions that volunteers have had when you've done point of time counts. Right? And we've done point of time counts several times now. So we hear from our volunteers all the time what their questions are when they're coming out. Um, so I want to guys start with one of the worst questions that I've had. But again, uh I I laugh a little bit, I chuckle a little bit because inside inside the business we understand that this is not a reasonable thing to ask, but people coming from the community don't know. Yep and literally I've had people ask me, should we wake them up when we're doing the point in time count to count and survey? And and my answer to the volunteer is would you want to be woken up in your house or where you're living in the middle of the night to do some kind of a survey? No, no, you would not don't wake people up in the middle of the night. They're gonna have attitudes, they're gonna be angry, they're gonna be upset, you're gonna be confused, you're gonna escalate a situation.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, and if there's others around and let's say you're not gonna get feedback from all these people because they're all gonna shut down on it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Yeah, yeah. So that's one of the questions.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Because again, the survey is done at different times throughout the day. So it's a morning shift, an afternoon, there's an evening shift.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Evening shift, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

So there's people who are yeah, so the answer is no. Do not wake them up. That's a big no no. Exactly. If you start that count that way, that's gonna be a problem.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Uh will we still do it if it rains? Yes, we do. Yes, we do. If we do, we do not stop. Does not matter what the weather is. Um, in fact, in some places, what we what we hope for is actually some bad weather so that we can get other shelters opened, we can get people to come in because it makes it easier to count people if they're coming into the shelter.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Because because it will make it harder to capture people outside because they will kind of go and find and find shelters and and find somewhere else to stay and get out of the elements. So, yeah, so so yes, we do do it if it raises even if it rains.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Even if it rains, and again, that's a tip for volunteers when you're volunteering for the point in time count. Make sure you bring the gear that you need to stay warm, to stay dry, all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

And in cold weather, if it's snowing, it still gets done anyway.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

It still gets done anyway. It does not make any difference. You're exactly right. Yeah. Um, do you ever not find people?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

It happens, yes. We I went out a couple of times last year and we drove for a while and really didn't see anything. We we actually saw me and my director of career services went together at one point and we went to a Koei, which is on the west side of us, and we found some encampments that were completely empty. Yeah, so we we didn't do good that it we saw maybe two people during that run. And it was they were really out on the street, it wasn't um like on a highway or whatever. But we there was some we just couldn't find anything, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

And and let me say this it is valuable to know where people are not as well. So the point in time count just isn't about finding every person out there. Obviously, we're trying to do that, but there are some places where there are not people, and we want to know where those people where those places are as well, particularly for our outreach teams, because our outreach teams then can know okay, I don't have to spend an extra hour or two hours going to this location or whatever the case is, or like you said, finding an encampment there where there aren't people. Okay, well, now we know from an outreach team perspective, we can send that outreach team back out to that encampment later and see if they can find people.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah, and on the opposite side is we find a spot that we didn't see last year that now has an encampment. Absolutely. Now we can send our REAS team to that location.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

So it kind of helps us on both sides of the Yeah, and the idea with the point in time count is to try and cover every single geographic area and zone that you possibly can within your within your uh continuum of care. Um, is it okay to take pictures and videos?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

So yes and no.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Yes and no, very good. I like that. That's exactly what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I passed that the up that's so yes and no. Yes, you can take pictures of your volunteers, your kind of your efforts, but not of the people you're serving. Right. Unless they say it's okay. Unless they say it's okay, right. You can't.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

And in a lot of circumstances, they will. They'll be okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

They'll say, sure, I'll take a picture with the butt driving up and walking to an encampment again. You can't just start taking pictures without authority and them giving you the release of the city.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah, even their even their stuff, even a tent or something that's out there, ask beforehand. It's just like anything else. Again, think of it as your home that somebody's coming into your home. Taking pictures. If they just came in and just started taking pictures and doing and and shooting videos, you might be a little upset at that. And so that's the idea is you need to ask about that ahead of time. Yeah. Um, are there other questions or uh other things that you can think of that have been asked?

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Is it safe?

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Is it safe? That's a good one. Is it safe?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

They ask that one.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

That's a good one. Absolutely. And uh we I think we've talked about this on a on a previous episode, but the reality is yes, it is absolutely safe. There's not only do we do training, but like we've said before, we have team leads. Um, and the team leads are all experienced people who either work in this industry and or have already been on a point-of-time count before, and they will help you go through this process. Uh the other thing is you don't do it by yourself. Nobody goes out by the way.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

By yourself, yep.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

You're always with somebody. There's always at least two people, maybe three people, that will approach individuals and talk to them about surveying or you know, getting information from them.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, our our as team leads, our job is to, of course, help you to get the get the surveys done, find people. But if we feel that it's an unsafe environment, right, we can go.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

It's not mandatory to stay there. We don't have to count it. So if we see that there's some type of escalation, if there's you know, that's what we're kind of again, because our staff know what to do, but uh, but uh, but a volunteer doesn't. That's right. So if they're they're feeling unsafe or they've we can interject and get involved, and then if they don't feel safe, we can just walk away. Yeah, just walk away. Absolutely. Yeah, hence why we shouldn't wake somebody up. That's okay. Exactly. Yeah, so but I think that's a big one they always ask is is it safe to do it? Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

I think the other thing um that that volunteers have asked me in the past is about uh animals, is we will run into animals out there. So you have to be careful. And again, it's really important that you make sure that you advertise or that you you know yell out to people ahead of time before walking up on a group of people or walking up on an encampment or anything like that. And again, team leads are familiar with this, they know that you can't just walk up into a camp because there's likely there's gonna be a dog or there's gonna be an animal of some kind there. Yep. And so you got to be really careful with that.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, and again, part of the team lead, you know, you do an orientation, you get trained on it for the volunteers and just staff in general. But then when you come to your assignment, you meet with the team leads, we go over a couple of things with you, right, you know, kind of explain the process and where we're going and what we're doing so that way they they understand what the next step is. You know, so it's that's right. So we're there to support them, you know? Yeah, because we want them to keep coming back and doing it every year. Oh, absolutely. You know, you want them to have a great experience, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Especially if they've never done it before. Yeah, absolutely. No doubt about it. Because it is, it is it is different. It's different, it's different. No, it's different. If you see someone on the side of the road, you know, pen-handling or whatever, but and then walking into an encampment, it's a whole different thing. It's like a world, yeah. No doubt about that. Absolutely. Yep. All right, so now it's time to get inspired by our quote of the week. So uh this is uh volunteer. The opportunity to meet and engage with my community who are experiencing great hardship was so rewarding. The perseverance, kindness, and ingenuity of the people I met was palpable. It was inspiring to be around uh people who work so hard to keep going. So this came from a volunteer. I pulled this off of uh the HSN website. Oh, that's great. And it's just to see what they thought, what they went through, um, and kind of their experience on it. So I think this is somebody who's probably gonna continue to do it.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

Oh, no doubt. Absolutely. I I think you're exactly right. And I think it's rewarding for the volunteers to be able to do this for anybody who gets involved in the point in time count. So uh I'll tell you a little story around this, Danny. It won't go too long. Don't give me that look. Danny, Danny Danny's giving me a look right now, like um like I tell long stories or something. We know that's not true. Anyway, of course not. This one's a quick one. So when I was in Dallas, we did the point in time count, and they have a wonderful process in Dallas. They break up by zones, they get team leads to come out. I mean, it's you know, it's very similar to what we're doing here in Central Florida, but they have a ton of volunteers, and they have pretty high-level volunteers too. They have city council people, mayor, they have all kinds of people that come out. Not to say that we don't here in central Florida as well. But anyway, um, but then uh so we were doing the point-in-time count. We were out there, I think the first year I was there, we might have had, I'll probably get this number wrong, but it was probably somewhere around 500 volunteers. I mean, we had a lot of volunteers. I remember when when we started the count, we brought them all into a church and it filled the entire church um to get them started out on the point of time count that night. Um and then uh and then of course COVID hit. And you remember COVID, right? And everything just shut down. We had volunteers calling us, we had city council people calling us, telling us we had to do the point of time count. And we were like, no, we cannot do the point of time count. This is COVID. Yeah, and not only is it dangerous for the for the volunteers, because you know, getting a good large group of people together at that time obviously had its had its you know drawbacks, but it's dangerous for the people out on the streets who you're running into and you know you're having contact with is you know they're vulnerable people. They don't have as much access to some of the other resources that other people do. But they were calling us, Danny. They were they were livid that they could not go out and do the point of time count. And I thought to myself, you know what, this is this really shows the value of getting your community out there to do it. Is even though, you know, they were upset because they couldn't do the count, it was great to see how passionate they were because they had their teams ready. I mean, they were ready to go. They had their teams from last year, they were calling their friends, their family, and getting people together. That's really good and really, you know, getting out there. And I think again, that's the value of it because when you have people like that who have gone out and talked with people, they can go out and they can advocate. And when somebody comes up with some, you know, some BS myth about somebody out there, they can say, you know, that's not true. I went out and I actually talked with somebody and I talked to them about that myth. And they said, no, the people I met were working, the people that I met were, you know, not lazy. They were getting up at five o'clock in the morning trying to go to work, they were looking for jobs, they were doing all these different I mean, they can they can overcome so many myths by talking with someone.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

I think people who volunteer who have not done it before think they're gonna go out and get a lot of no's.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

And it's the opposite. Oh, yeah. You're gonna get a lot of people who are gonna tell you a lot more than what's on the questionnaire. That's exactly right. Yes, they are. They're gonna tell you about themselves. Their whole story, how where the how they got here, what's going on. I mean, they will tell you a lot. Yeah. Um, more than what, again, what's what you're asking them to do. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Well, that concludes our halftime. Please stay with us after this short message.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Hello, I'm Daniel Arroyo, Vice President of Programs at Pathlight Home. If you're new to our mission, welcome. We're dedicated to changing the lives of those experiencing homelessness and hardship through housing, support services, and career training. What began as one dream for a compassionate solution to homelessness has become a reality. Since our funding, we've provided housing for more than 8,000 people, offering shelter, opportunity, and hope. This month, as we honor National Homeless Awareness Month, we are also kicking off our end-of-year campaign, a time to come together and give back. Every contribution, whether monetary or in kind, directly supports our residents and the community we serve. No gift is too small to make a difference. As we celebrate our journey from dream to reality, thank you for being part of this mission. Together we can make the dream of ending homelessness a reality in our community. It's now time to kick off the third quarter by highlighting the goodwill and good work in the NFL community and announcing our NFL home team locks of the week. So in December of 2025, Buffalo Bills offensive tackle Dion Dawkins engaged in several charitable activities in Western New York through his foundation, Dion's Dreamers. I like the name. Including distributing, uh distributing holiday grocery boxes and hosting a holiday shopping spree for local families. These efforts contributed to him being the Bills 2025 Walter Payton Man of the Year. Um in December 2025 community. Nominee, sorry, nominee. Hasn't been announced, yeah. Uh December 2025 community initiatives. Uh he did holiday grocery box distribution. Uh Dawkins partnered with the Buffalo Bills Foundation, Wegmans, Feed More Western New York, and the Salvation Army to hand out 200 holiday grocery boxes to families in need. The boxes contained food items for a Christmas dinner and holiday cards made by local middle school students. Then he did uh the Holly Jolly Schneewan shop, teaming up with the West Her uh with West Her. His charity hosted a holiday shopping spree event with families uh where families could pick out gifts. Uh children also enjoyed a fun zone with crafts, snacks, and time with the Schnewman, Dawkins' nickname. Snowman. Uh uh Northland Workforce Training Center. Dion's Dreamers sponsored the center's community holiday celebration, an event focused on community empowerment and youth mentorship.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

That's great. Very good, fantastic. And uh just for all the listeners out there, Danny is not mispronouncing snowman. No, snowman. It is snowman. I don't have a list. It's a combination of showman and snowman. I don't have a list. So H N O W Food is a good one. It's the snowman. And that's his nickname. He's the he's the snowman. Yes, sir. Um he's a very big dude, and uh, I can see where he would he would uh get that nickname.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

He did a lot for December for Christmas, pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Yeah, he's he's fantastic. Uh obviously the Buffalo Bills are one of the wonderful uh uh teams in the NFL in terms of giving back and really giving back to their community and being part of their community. Um, you know, I watched a little bit of Hard Knocks this year, which was with the Buffalo Bills, and they showed Deion Dawkins, and he's just fantastic. I mean, he's off the field, he's like the softest, kindest, nicest guy in the entire world. You know, so this this makes total sense here. Very good. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

All right, so now we're doing our locks of the week. So we're predicting the home team to which win each week. So uh last week, uh Carl, you had Seattle versus San Francisco.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

And they they didn't know I had San Francisco actually. Oh, I'm sorry, you had San Francisco. Yep. And they were playing Seattle, and unfortunately, Seattle beat them. I thought San Francisco was gonna pull it off. It was a really tight game, a lot of defense in that game, but uh San Francisco couldn't do it at home, and that was for the number one seed in the NFC. Yeah, and they couldn't get it done.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Yep. And Danny, you had Miami versus New England, and New England won that game. Yeah, they did, and they did great.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Um, so uh call you so you so your your record is six and eleven.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Oh my god. Making me say of course I have to say it one more time. I think I don't think the audience heard you. Uh I am uh nine and eight. Yeah, look at that three-game lead. Um apparently we're still gonna keep doing this game. But if it ended today, just want to point out nine and eight, six and eleven. But anyway, we're gonna keep it going because it is so the playoffs call decided to add two points now. Yes for when each each win. Hey, the playoffs is more important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Of course. I mean, it's always more important.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Pretty sure if this record was backwards, it would still be a point, but hey, that's I digress. Uh so your team, so your picks next week are?

SPEAKER_03 41:10

My pick is Philly. They're playing at home versus San Francisco. That should be a great game. So that should be a really, really good game. And uh I'm looking forward to watching that game because that one that one should be really good. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

So I have I have the Chargers against the Patriots. I'm gonna stick with my Patriots against the Patriots.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

You didn't take them to win the Super Bowl now, Danny.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

So at some point, I'm not gonna pick Philly because you picked Philly. I know, I picked Philly, so you know. Yeah, both of your teams are good for the Super Bowl that you picked? Are they still they're in the playoffs, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Yeah, both are in the playoffs. Oh, your Ravens got eliminated though, didn't they? The field goal that you go.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

The field goal at the end. That poor kicker's face. His face is he looked like I'm gonna get beat up in the locker room today. Yeah, so my my my my whole Super Bowl prediction is gone. So but yep, but those are our teams for next week. So we'll, you know, playoffs are gonna be good. They're gonna be good games.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

All right, great. Well, uh stay tuned for our wrap-up after this message.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Hello, I'm Gigi Ramirez, the senior director of fundraising and engagement here at Pathlight Home. For over 30 years, we've helped more than 8,000 people transition from homelessness to hope. But when someone moves from the streets to their own home, they often have nothing. That's why we provide immediate essentials, everything from bedding and food to soap and cookware to help them truly feel at home. Beyond housing, Pathlight offers career training and supportive services, like our 12-week culinary program, helping residents gain skills, find jobs, and rebuild independence. You can be part of the story, volunteer your time, donate essential goods, or become a monthly Pathlight hero. Ensuring every neighbor has a chance to thrive. Visit pathlighthome.org to donate today.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Welcome to the fourth quarter where we will wind down this episode by reflecting on a homelessness MVP and fumble of the week before wrapping up with our key takeaway.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

All right. Well, let's start with our MVP of the week. Uh, this MVP takes us to Bithlow, Florida. How about that? Just east of us here, uh east of Orlando.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

You know Bethlow pretty well.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

There you go. With temperatures dipping into the 30s overnight and no shelter for the hundreds who sleep in the woods of East Orange County. That's outside of Orlando. A nonprofit opened an overnight shelter on last went last Tuesday and Wednesday near Betlow to help keep people warm amid hopes it can provide many more nights of support to come. Eventually, United Global Outreach CEO. Tim McKinney. We know Tim very well. Tim very great guy. We've partnered with him. He does great work, absolutely. He said he planned for the two-acre property on East Colonial Drive to be a permanent homeless shelter, a move that would make it the only general shelter in the county outside of downtown Orlando. He said both short-term and long-term options are necessary, citing the lack of any county-run warming center on the east side. We must provide an option for people overnight, McKinney said. I don't think any person who lives in East Orange County thinks it's okay for a person to sleep outside when it's 35 degrees. It's too soon to say whether McKinney can realize this dream of a permanent shelter. The property zoning hinges on a lawsuit between the county and state involving Orange's rural growth control rules. While such facilities also tend to draw neighborhood opposition, a key reason there are so few shelters in the area now, he suspects this site might be different in a more sparsely populated area. The group opened its doors to a former church at least as well as a few adjacent motel rooms on the property for people to come out of the woods and into the warmth. McKinney said he suspected that he'd have between 30 and 50 people each night. His outreach staff was fanning out into known encampments in wooded areas across Bithlow and East Or East Orange to let people know about the available space.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

So Bithlow's that that perfect space that was part that we said about being rural and hardly anything out there. He's so far out. Absolutely. And we we visited out there to meet with him. Absolutely. And he's so far out that it's like they forget that he's there. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

But he has a lot of homeless people out there. He does. And he provides a lot of services considering where he's at.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

He absolutely does.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

And Tim definitely thinks outside of the box. And he does. He does. And he just, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

And so it this is not a surprise to Danny and I that he opened up, you know, uh space for uh warm night shelter or cold night shelter. And so we, you know, but it is something that's that's needed. And again, it goes back to that point of we've got to think about all of the areas. You know, we're talking about the pick count now. Yep. He's gonna count several, you probably a hundred people out there in East Orange County, which means we need to have services available. And he can use that data from the point in time count to be able to justify why he can have a shelter, why he needs more services there, why he needs you know, service X, Y, or Z. And so those are some of the values of the point in time count is being able to get into areas where we might not think that we need services or we might not think there are people out there.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, and everything's very far out there to get to any type of service. The fact that he's bringing all the services to him is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

But we need more partners and more community members out there to help him because he can't do it alone. That's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

So that's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Yeah, that's a great story. Yeah, fantastic. Go, Tim. All right, now to our fumble of the week. So this is from Hartford, Connecticut. Uh, several unhoused people were left scrambling to find shelter in Hartford this week after the city cleared a homeless encampment, a move that's uh sparked tension over suburban and urban responsibilities. The city said they posted signs around Hartford's Pope Park last week warning homeless people in the area to gather their belongings and move before the backhoe moved in. On Monday, a department of public works uh backhoe was used to clear the encampment, sending a handful of people to look for shelter, according to officials. We have no place to go. My wife and I, we've been separated from our children already. The stress of not knowing is really tough, said an unhoused Hartford resident whose tent was cleared by the city. Where do we go? All of our stuff is in that tent. What little stuff we have left. Another couple had left and came back, and all the stuff was gone. Every blanket, piece of food, all of it, gone. Jeffrey, along with his wife, who were both staying in the tent at Pope Park, said that he pleaded with city officials to let them stay while they actively search uh while they are actively searching for a long-term drug rehabilitation center. When the cold weather shelters first open, the outreach program here is great. The city will drive you to a shelter, he said. But they won't allow my wife and I to be next to each other. They separate the men and the women. That may not seem like a big deal, but the separation anxiety is astronomical. We do everything together and we don't want to be separated. Now, a lawmaker is demanding answers on why the city would forcibly remove homeless people during frigid cold temperatures and a few days before the Christmas holiday. Uh State Senator Saud Anwa, co-chair of the public health committee, said that homelessness is a collective failure, and he is urging officials to step up and address the homeless crisis in his Facebook post. Today, the city of Hartford, presumably, under the direction of the mayor, took what little people had left: their tent, their belongings, their only sense of space, dignity, and safety. They were left with nothing, uh, the state senator posted on Facebook. So it's another one of those plane encampments during cold weather. It's about the third one we've read in the last couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

And it's just, I just, I don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't, it doesn't bring any solution. And again, going back to our point in time count discussion, this makes it so much harder to count and find people. When we're moving people around from place to place and we're destroying their property and destroying their their uh locations, it makes it so much harder for us. You know, we talked about the fact that that the point in time count is an undercount. Well, part of the reason that it's an undercount is because people keep moving around. We talked about this the other day, you and I, when we were having a discussion about our outreach team. And, you know, we have some housing available here through our three bridges program where where our outreach team will go out and find people, but between the times when we actually have beds available, they have to put people on a wait list, basically. And sometimes when they go back out there, they can't find them. Why? Because they've been moved down the street, they've been moved around, their encampment has been torn down, all those kinds of things. It did not solve the problem. You know, we're uh all we need is a little bit of time.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

And that's how people then that's the worst thing is to have uh an apartment, a unit available for someone, and they're waiting to move it for someone to win, and then you can't find them. And then you can't find them, and then now they start from square one because now you have to give it to someone else. That's exactly right. And now this person has to start.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

And they gotta start and you get to start the back of the line, basically.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

You start losing faith in the system if it happens to be. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

And that's why uh exactly that's why a lot of people out on the streets are frustrated and angry and things like that. It's because the system is not working for them, it's not helping them. And and by moving people around and destroying their property, you know, things again, things as small as ID or birth certificates or things like this, those take a long time to get those things back for people, and they need them to be able to move into houses or get a job. Or get a job. That's exactly right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

And just with this gentleman, what he said about, you know, I I they want to separate me and my wife, it may be small, but it's not to them. That's all they have is each other. So now you're separating them, it's just gonna create more stress or anxiety, as they say. Exactly. For each of them, it's just and that's the same thing with pets. We talked about pets and separating pets with the with the other. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

So not a lot of options available there.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Just during cold weather, like I just don't comprehend it.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah, it's yeah, it it's frustrating sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

All right, uh, and finally, here's our key takeaway for this episode. The point-in-time count may seem like it's just another HUD mandated task to do, but most importantly, it's an opportunity for the community to let people who are experiencing homelessness know that they are seen, they're cared for, and recognized as needing our support. I think that's the I think that's the big thing about the point in time count is when we're out there talking to people, one of the things that we do is we explain to them that this is trying to bring more services and help understand what services people need. And I think that's a key part of the point in time count. It's not about it's not just about us getting numbers, it's about the people on the street understanding that we see you. We care about you, we're trying to get services to you. We need to, we need your information. So we can we need we need your voice in our decision-making process, and that's kind of what this is about. Again, that customer service satisfaction survey, right? You know, um, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Yeah, definitely. All right, so that concludes our episode for the week. Remember, if you have any questions or comments, um, or if you have any questions about the pick count or how to contact um Continuum of Care or if you need information from us, we can give all that to you. Uh, but please email us at questions at pathlighthome.org. As always, we leave the last words for our beloved co founder, the late Reverend Fred Maxwell. Take it away. I'm still dreaming.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

I'm still dreaming that we will become uh able and sufficient to increase uh the housing of homeless. This is merely a beginning.